Werewolves Revamped

S15g2 | CC 1 / 🤝alphayeen-pack-diplomacy

@Dragon of Santa Clause has created a new CC! CC Members | Total: 4 @Dragon of Santa Clause @Phantom of Christmas Past @Dispeller of Sin @The Krampus

Hi kal

14:27

yeen

14:28

Want some tea

yeen

Sneaking Wolf - ️ Phantom (citizen claim)
Howling Wolf - Sinisfuel (barber claim, wolf waiter)
Lone Wolf → Wolf Kremblin (devout villager claim)

Phantom of Christmas Past

Want some tea

I like tea

14:31

What are you offering

14:31

Also this is blackmail btw

14:31

I was the witch ruh pluh pluh

I knew it

14:32

How fair

meow

Anyways I really don’t know what you’re talking about

@Participant wake up and read

I've read

14:33

Interesting stuff

Preposterous

14:33

I can get everyone here to die because I am who was dictating the lynches

14:34

I'm so giddy

A kalimoor who is giddy is perhaps the most dangerous beast in all of werewolves

Panic all you want, the moment I am in danger the imposter among you is primed to leak WP

14:34

anyway lets lynch town

14:36

Any info yall want?

14:36

anything yall want to know idk

What… are you trying to get from this

how good of a position are vamps in

14:37

on a scale of 1-10

Fun and 0

14:38

brilliant

So is this a blackmail or a request to work together because thats two different things

yeen

Coroname como Town Trusted Hiena

14:56

@Phantom of Christmas Past @Dispeller of Sin @The Krampus who yall want dead i can make it happen as a token of goodwill

You didn’t answer my question

14:56

I really hope we can be clear with each other

work together with me, if pack opposes me it will get leaked (along with mechanical information confirming the leak), this is the premise

Sure

14:59

What’s your goal in the end

Pack leaked me so I'm being nice out of a limb here

14:59

Our goal is to win

14:59

yeen

Dragon of Santa Clause

@Phantom of Christmas Past @Dispeller of Sin @The Krampus who yall want dead i can make it happen as a token of goodwill

@Participant.

15:00

No more questions. Names

honestly i dont have a clue what is even going on atp im gonna be so fr

ok i have someone in mind

Yall add me to your ccs btw i wanna see how were the claims

15:45

I also have a tasty night kill target for yall tn

I'm happy to add you largely because I said exactly 3 things in that cc and only 1 was game relevant

The Krampus

I'm happy to add you largely because I said exactly 3 things in that cc and only 1 was game relevant

help

@Phantom of Christmas Past hbu

19:09

Still waiting

19:11

@Dispeller of Sin when

You know

21:45

I have been crunching the numbers

21:46

And all paths eventually lead to a town win if we do end up killing eachother @Participant I'd enjoy to discuss this

i'd enjoy to know how many vamps are left alive

The Krampus

i'd enjoy to know how many vamps are left alive

0

21:47

This is genuine btw

21:47

The public customer lightpulp in question

21:47

And swurtle was said by jay, so

mrow

do any of the remaining town know each other/are connected

21:48

cause if they're not in a group with info their votes don't,,,mean much

They kinda Are

21:48

Which is cooked

21:51

in any case im still holding the threat up of threatening undead = we leak EVERYTHING

Hi Wgat are we doing What is this

Wasn’t this your idea

POV amongus

22:01

Dragon of Santa Clause

0

Really…

22:02

If you’re that behind I think you’d be a bit more willing to team

Phantom of Christmas Past

If you’re that behind I think you’d be a bit more willing to team

after the 3 of you leaked me this is actually extremely optimistic

22:02

Im just making sure the bunch of you follow through

I didn’t do anything

22:03

And I mean, would you have preferred turtle chat with you or something?

22:03

You were on my tail this whole game and I didn’t care

nah and i'm stubborn as heck

22:03

I'd have preferred if turtle didn't leak me

Right, we had zero choice and with zero info being aggressive was the better move over rolling over and dying

22:04

And just saying, we had basically zero info

22:04

Our wolf team is rigged to death

It was in good form!

22:04

/gen

Like psy wolf as our invest, no knowledgeable

22:05

It’s genuinely incredibly demotivating in a partial

I think a ML would have happened today if I wasn't leaked, thats how chilling yall were

22:05

It is happening now but out of necessity really

Hm

all paths either lead to town win or draw for the information of everyone present

22:06

In all cases where undead/wolves battle on eachother, town wins

Snivy isn’t vamp?

Sniv isn't vamp yuh

Phantom of Christmas Past

Are you really eating up lightpulp being the town customer

Chef didn’t even talk with us lol

You guys killed the chef

Who

Meow

Who is meow

I'm not sure how much info can I share but I'm pretty sure we will all appreciate if the person I'm going to name at night is killed

22:12

My entire brainpower went into 'optimal play' theorizing and I just got sad that we can never win really, only draw

Draw isn’t possible with wolves though right so you’d be drawing with town

Draw is possible across all 3 teams

What’s the condition

Assuming a town dies tonight

And

22:15

Also I still would like an answer about the chef if possible because there’s an inconsistency

3v1+2v2

Phantom of Christmas Past

Also I still would like an answer about the chef if possible because there’s an inconsistency

What inconsistency i have the entire info dawg

Who is chef

Chef is die

22:15

That early?

22:16

We weren’t told once about waiter

You 3 should really compile what questions you want to ask

*2

22:17

And I think my question is reasonable

22:17

Because we really haven’t gotten any ccs

Chef only ever cced jay to my knowledge

Why…

22:17

Bass? Sharl?

mrow

Phantom of Christmas Past

Why…

I have no idea

22:18

Chef usually fakeclaims until they are busted

No

22:18

wtf

Im most curious why exactly are you asking who is the chef

What kind of chef does that

Phantom of Christmas Past

wtf

Y e s?

Phantom of Christmas Past

What kind of chef does that

A smart one

1

22:19

ok wait i realized

22:19

that comes off insultingly

22:19

uhhmmm

22:20

A chef not wanting to die to town*

What

22:21

Have you never played or see chef plays

22:21

Has the meta changed

nah and yuh ig

Chef not claiming to customers is asking to get stray killed

1

ok, the chef was bass

Okay

22:23

Reasonable

22:23

Like if bass just… ccd us… no reason for him to get attacked

22:23

So idk why you’re questioning mark me

joyous

Phantom of Christmas Past

Like if bass just… ccd us… no reason for him to get attacked

Well

22:25

If/when wolf customer dies thags a non-wolf vote If chef believes wolves to be losing chef will never help you

Yeah but that’s the point of ccing early

22:26

How do they know we’re losing or not?

22:26

And it only caused them to lose more

22:27

Like what do you get from not ccing everyone…

22:27

If you’re cherry picking teams early you’re digging your grave when that team goes down

Phantom of Christmas Past

How do they know we’re losing or not?

Info from town possibly

Phantom of Christmas Past

If you’re cherry picking teams early you’re digging your grave when that team goes down

if

Again, why restrict yourself to one team when you can comfortably go with 3?

Dragon of Santa Clause

Info from town possibly

As if town would give a chef that info

you know how is bass

22:32

joyous

22:34

The waiter list is a bit wild now that i think about it

@Participant

23:05

| Alex is the Aura Teller

23:05

Please murder him

23:05

The funny part is

23:07

I thought i was fine until for some reason ocean told yuki to exo alex (success) And i was actually gonna make ocean tell yuki to exo me

23:07

hes also the town waiter btw

yeah sounds about right

23:09

does waiter even matter if chef is dead

Nah

23:10

It does matter for how town thinks the list is so far (since differing alignments)

i gues bro whatever

Preposterous

✅ Renamed channel to 🤝alphayeen-pack-diplomacy!

@The Krampus @Dispeller of Sin @Phantom of Christmas Past how's chrismus for yall

i also did some extra math

15:54

game indeed nearly always ends in a draw

15:55

considering this, withholding info is probably irrelevant

15:58

I'll reveal the list for you at morning ig

15:59

In any case i die it is wolf loss for the record

16:00

Since town is forced to play for a draw at that point and the undead wolfy among you will be happy to cooperate

Dragon of Santa Clause

@The Krampus @Dispeller of Sin @Phantom of Christmas Past how's chrismus for yall

chillin wbu

Dragon of Santa Clause

game indeed nearly always ends in a draw

I’d like to see the math because I’m confused

ping me for questions

Phantom of Christmas Past

chillin wbu

Chill day with family

17:06

We have tradition here to wear FULLY new clothes and accessories

17:06

And it always feels nice

17:06

It makes new year feel new

Thats amazing

Phantom of Christmas Past

I’d like to see the math because I’m confused

Counterproductive One of the outcomes results in undead win (why im not flat out proposing a draw) One of the outcomes results in a wolf win (why im not flat out helping you with the math) Most outcomes result in a draw To get closer to both goal-furthering outcomes, a town has to die

Alright because I don’t see any possibility for a draw at all

Why

Your vote power is and always will be higher than ours

17:08

Game cant end

Phantom of Christmas Past

Your vote power is and always will be higher than ours

Hmmmm, not quite

And that statement would be even more correct if you still have a hidden vamp or undead

Phantom of Christmas Past

And that statement would be even more correct if you still have a hidden vamp or undead

girl

17:10

jay spouted swurtle was d e a d

17:10

Lightpulp spouted he was customer

Jay didn’t need to publicly say that, it could be bait

why didnt you guys kill pulp btw (curiosity question)

We did

17:10

Failed

What

Lw did at least

17:10

Ah right

17:10

I see

17:10

That’s why

1

17:11

points and laughs in vengeance of my flute moment

Sure then I’ll believe that

17:12

But again I don’t see how a draw would happen here

17:12

As long as wolves are alive draws won’t happen

Phantom of Christmas Past

Sure then I’ll believe that

In the case alex is demonized, you can lynch me anyways In fact it is the optimal

17:13

So yeah

Alex is demonized?

17:13

Didn’t he get cured

He was demonized but got exod

Exactly

i specifically told ocean to like

17:13

exo me instead.

So yeah again draws won’t happen sadly

17:14

We’ll be forced to attack

draws will happen

Phantom of Christmas Past

We’ll be forced to attack

wolves are not forced to attack if it results in loss

Well again a draw would also require a tie in votes

17:15

And right now thats impossible to do

The math down the line says it is

Dragon of Santa Clause

wolves are not forced to attack if it results in loss

But if it results in a win, then wolves are forced to attack or it’s a throw

Phantom of Christmas Past

But if it results in a win, then wolves are forced to attack or it’s a throw

Yep

17:16

I didn't say the contrary

17:16

Just specified if attacking results in loss it is not forced

And right now any attack would “propel” wolves to a “win”, if we don’t attack its throwing

Phantom of Christmas Past

And right now any attack would “propel” wolves to a “win”, if we don’t attack its throwing

Yep

I don’t see a scenario where attacking would force a loss on us

Phantom of Christmas Past

I don’t see a scenario where attacking would force a loss on us

Later

Meaning we’ll always be forced to attack

Dragon of Santa Clause

Counterproductive One of the outcomes results in undead win (why im not flat out proposing a draw) One of the outcomes results in a wolf win (why im not flat out helping you with the math) Most outcomes result in a draw To get closer to both goal-furthering outcomes, a town has to die

Right now i said that tonight ^

Dragon of Santa Clause

Later

Again, I’ve thought of later scenarios too, and I still can’t think of anything

I'll share the list with you later anyway if yall are hurting for info

I think a draw is just… impossible

it's not

17:18

again it is literally what most outcomes result to here

17:18

The 100% optimal also results in a draw

17:19

3 way draw which is stupid af btw

Assuming we follow the town kill and lynch it’d result in a 2 v 2 v 3, we’d obviously be forced to kill here, and if we kill either undead or town none would result in a draw, even if we kill an undead for a 2 v 2 v 2, it’s not a tie and we’d be forced to lynch and kill again. And any kill we do would remove the tie even more. Even if all town supposedly dies and it’s a 2 v 3 with undead, we’re still forced to kill and you’re forced to lynch

✨ it results in a 3 way draw ✨

How

17:21

It doesn’t

does

A lynch would happen, we’re still forced to kill

it jst does

Any kill we do lowers the opposing vote count which is “beneficial” to us, not doing it is throwing

Hummm

17:24

I'm completely ignoring that math btw

Phantom of Christmas Past

Any kill we do lowers the opposing vote count which is “beneficial” to us, not doing it is throwing

But this is correct, but the optimal, again, results in a draw

17:26

there will be a case where killing by wolves results in loss

I really don’t think there is one

17:26

Any kill again lowers opposing vote count

Since scum (undead+wolf) would require full vote power to match town in a poll tie. Any less and it is a town win

17:27

Im leaving up to you the meth

Yeah but any scum can vote with town or the other way around

17:27

This isn’t a hard set tie and the game will go on

Phantom of Christmas Past

Yeah but any scum can vote with town or the other way around

instantly resulting in town win/undead win/wolf win if not played correctly

17:28

There is an alignment win for deviating and 90% of them are town wins

Town voting with undead results in a higher win chance than a tie

17:28

Because if it’s a tie wolves are forced to kill again, to kill town

❌ town will always want to eliminate scum. Undead cant afford that?

17:29

how are they gonna eliminate town

17:29

i will get busy

Yes, but town is allowed to team with a scum if it helps reach their goal easier

Prolly until near PC

And this is an example of said case

17:30

In lategame town needs wolves dead more than solo since wolves have kill power

Phantom of Christmas Past

Because if it’s a tie wolves are forced to kill again, to kill town

Hmmm

17:31

Thonking

Phantom of Christmas Past

In lategame town needs wolves dead more than solo since wolves have kill power

ruh pluh pluh

17:33

I'm leaving you to do the math

17:34

That's not the optimal + that path probably results in wolf loss

17:35

Haven't spent time evaluating it and yesterday alr gave me a mild headache and I'm spending time with family

17:35

I will have to be busy but reminder that

Killing town is the best outcome for BOTH undead and wolf
I will post the entire list + action order from everyone by morning for yall 3 to see

That’s fair

im momentarily here

18:04

yeen ping

18:05

@Phantom of Christmas Past are you momentarily here

What’s up

Phantom of Christmas Past

What’s up

@The Krampus vote on the pack kill poll please (reminder) and also vote too

Thats it?

yeap

18:07

Theres not much to discuss

18:07

And

Wow

The lunch isnt gonna make irself

18:07

My cousins want me to plode firecrackers with em at the same time

18:07

im just gonna do mitosis

why not ping me rude

@Dispeller of Sin

Dispeller of Sin

why not ping me rude

Already know you are voting

@Dispeller of Sin

18:08

@Dispeller of Sin

joyous

Thanks phan

18:08

kittythumbsup

1

But yeah all 3 vote plzplzpz

Appointed successor (in the due case of death to speed game up)

22:03

uhh

22:03

hi

22:03

It was a blast (literally)

22:05

Grill was very nice, everyone liked it!!!!

22:06

I have been the ua chef all along frfr

❤️ ok

Dispeller of Sin

❤️ ok

❓

❤️ok

1

❤️ nokia

️

Alr second

23:19

@Phantom of Christmas Past @The Krampus @Dispeller of Sin

Hi

Yeens & Rolelists [SOLVED] ⭐

Town | (9)

• 1x Town Power ⤷ 1x Exorcist -

Yuki • 1x Town Investigative ⤷ 1x Aura Teller -

Alex† • x2 Town Killing ⤷ 1x ~~Priest~~ "Witch" - yeen

yeen

Kalimoor ⤷ 1x Huntress -

Ocean† • x5 Town Miscellaneous ⤷ 2x Devout Villager -

Jay†,

Fish† ⤷ 1x Runner -

Neo ⤷ 2x Journalist -

Sharl†,

Snivy

Wolf | (5)

• 1x Wolf Investigative ⤷ Psychic Wolf -

Turtle† "Innkeeper" • 2x Wolf Miscellaneous ⤷ Wolf -

Luffy† ⤷ Sneaking Wolf -

️ Phantom "Citizen" • 2x Wolf Killing ⤷ Lone Wolf → Wolf -

Kremblin "DV" ⤷ Howling Wolf -

Sinisfuel "Barber"

Solo | (2)

• 2x Solo Power ⤷ 2x Vampire - thight

thight

Swurtle†,

Lightpulp† ⤷ 2x Undead -

Sinisfuel, yeen

yeen

Kalimoor

Unaligned | (1)

• 1x Unaligned Killing ⤷ Chef -

‍⬛ Bass†

Info

yeen

~~Kalimoor | Priest~~

N1 - ❌
N2 - ✅

yeen

"Kalimoor | Witch"

N2 attack ✅ | defend Alex† | Aura Teller
N1 - ❌
N2 - ✅
N3 - ✅
N4 - ️ ❌
N5 - ❌
N6 - ✅ Yuki | Exorcist
D0 - ❌
D1 - ❌
D2 - ❌
D3 - ✅
D4 - ✅
D5 - ❌
D6 - ...
Notes
N3 masking+Striking night
is hit Once.
3x Waiters - , †,
"I assume I got attacked N2"
Demonized - , "Fakeclaim" | Dead†

-# Last updated: Early D6

23:19

anyways

23:19

@Phantom of Christmas Past you are cool

23:20

@The Krampus I cast testicular torsion

why did the bum chef never talk to me???

23:20

basscy died night 3 Had more than enough time Smh

idrk

23:23

Actually

kal don't be stupid

The Krampus

kal don't be stupid

im not

23:23

this is literally the math

23:24

im jst mathematically playing here

23:24

also you leaked me

23:24

thight

23:24

consider this payback

THAT WAS TURTLE FIRST OF ALL

23:24

and secondly

The Krampus

THAT WAS TURTLE FIRST OF ALL

you suggested it

23:24

To turtle

23:24

In wp poll

23:24

Be fr now

sin why are you so mean to me

Haaahaaaaa

okay no words for that one

i was gonna say something

23:25

and then i remembered how demonization works'

23:25

so actually i can see what you're doing

23:25

i forgot demonization gets wiped if vamps die

23:25

i was gonna suggest suiciding

The Krampus

i forgot demonization gets wiped if vamps die

nah

23:26

It doesnt

it does??

How you think sin is turned

unless im stupid??

23:26

bruh

The Krampus

unless im stupid??

uhm

The Krampus

i forgot demonization gets wiped if vamps die

It doesn't surely I didn't get turned until ocean died

well no then in that case

Vamps were already dead by then

you can ask hosts

23:27

you dont know how pissed i was when

23:27

Alex got exod

iirc there was a game where i believe ts got wolfpack to all kill each other to turn undead and that didn't count as throwing so if im the last wolf standing then i can just turn myself undead to win with you surely. so it makes no sense for you to lynch the ONLY PERSON WHO COULD ALIGN WITH YOU

The Krampus

iirc there was a game where i believe ts got wolfpack to all kill each other to turn undead and that didn't count as throwing so if im the last wolf standing then i can just turn myself undead to win with you surely. so it makes no sense for you to lynch the ONLY PERSON WHO COULD ALIGN WITH YOU

it's against the rules

damn

wolf alignment draws

23:27

100%

23:27

with optimal play

23:28

you cannot play against this

scratches my butt

1

uhh

23:28

oke

whatever you tell us to do Glorious leader

Dragon of Santa Clause

wolf alignment draws

explain the math on this rq for me before i leak all of this

The Krampus

explain the math on this rq for me before i leak all of this

hilarious

23:31

you die

23:31

uhh

23:31

3v2+1v1

23:31

Phan kills sin

23:31

Forced to vote with phan

23:31

Etc

23:31

Phan is cooler than you so thats why i pickd hime to live

wow.

Dragon of Santa Clause

Phan is cooler than you so thats why i pickd hime to live

@Phantom of Christmas Past know this

The Krampus

wow.

No way the lone undead kinda wants u cooked up after you tell a dying wolf to leak him

23:32

23:33

I was fighting for my life after that.

did anyone actually believe you were undead cause to me it felt like that entire leak went ignored

nah

23:33

nobody

23:33

not even ocean

23:33

ocean thought alex was undead

23:33

because i said so

23:34

Even though sin nor turtle got watered

23:34

Didnt even suspect me watering phan on the night she was gonna die

23:34

So yeah

absolutely class

skill diff

wow i only just read the tiny text in your announcement

The Krampus

absolutely class

It sounds cool and all but the reason my xp is so high is that i crashed out so much

Sticker

The Krampus

wow i only just read the tiny text in your announcement

why does nobody resd the whole thing

23:40

@The Krampus @Phantom of Christmas Past vote someone from your choice

23:40

If town gets weird I'll kingmake for you

23:40

like

Alive Players | Total: 7

️ - phantomtomicbomb (@Phantom of Christmas Past)

- thekremblin (@The Krampus) yeen

yeen

- kalimoor (@Dragon of Santa Clause)

- aliisniv (@Chief Wreath Designer)

- sinisfuel (@Dispeller of Sin)

- neoimperium (@Neo the Red Nosed Reindeer)

- yuki_not_cutie (@Elf Yuki) (edited)

uhhh

23:40

neo

Dragon of Santa Clause

neo

@Phantom of Christmas Past @The Krampus

@The Krampus

00:09

Have to talk w/ you

mhm

You are so lucky I’m busy kal because I really don’t have the time to fact-check this

Phantom of Christmas Past

You are so lucky I’m busy kal because I really don’t have the time to fact-check this

It's a headache to work it through but yeah

Dragon of Santa Clause

@Phantom of Christmas Past you are cool

This is all the fact checking you need phan

Well

23:19

Here just dont kill me (it instantly causes scum loss due to lack of votes+completely revealed rolelist) and tomorrow we ball

23:21

Best move here is skip kill

Nvm you cant do that

Well whatever

00:44

I was actually gonna write a 2k character long block of text asking you to choose

00:44

But yaaaa

00:45

@Phantom of Christmas Past murderize yuki here (or neo if you are icky ab that)

00:47

me dying = scum loss so ahdidhhehch

00:47

Ping me for questions (i'll check them by morning I'm eepy)

Dragon of Santa Clause

Ping me for questions (i'll check them by morning I'm eepy)

What’s stopping you or town from just… voting me out?

Phantom of Christmas Past

What’s stopping you or town from just… voting me out?

It is best to vote out town in that situation

01:03

gainst town's interest

How so

Also i realized i can also resign mayor but for all intents and purposes assume im not because i cba to do the math

Town’s 100% voting me out, I’m sure you’d want me out more since I’m a liability with kills

Phantom of Christmas Past

Town’s 100% voting me out, I’m sure you’d want me out more since I’m a liability with kills

Town do that and they lose to votepworr

They would lose to vote power anyways, what I’m concerned about is your votes

01:06

If you vote with town they have plenty

Phantom of Christmas Past

If you vote with town they have plenty

Gurl if i votw you out they Flat out lose

That’s good for you, you win

Yes

01:08

But when town knows this they'll just tie the poll

01:08

Then just continue game

Town can hand you the win

By voting out

01:08

Town

One town might be inac

Mnah

01:09

They are just reluctant

In what way

Phantom of Christmas Past

Town can hand you the win

Also no

01:09

Its better for them to cut their loses and play for a draw by keeping both you and I alive

They can, even accidentally

Phantom of Christmas Past

They can, even accidentally

Visibel confusion

Again, inacs

01:12

Town can abstain from voting

01:12

They can also pick you to win

01:12

They won’t work with me if I killed one of them

Phantom of Christmas Past

They can also pick you to win

They would be choosing a bad outcome

Phantom of Christmas Past

They won’t work with me if I killed one of them

Me after mling fish

Dragon of Santa Clause

They would be choosing a bad outcome

So you’re saying the better outcome is for town to tie with their killer

01:14

Giving me another kill next night

Phantom of Christmas Past

So you’re saying the better outcome is for town to tie with their killer

...yes?

Phantom of Christmas Past

Giving me another kill next night

.......yes??

01:16

Otherwise they lose on the spot

Again, town can do that accidentally or purposefully

They are forgoing a better scenario for a worse one on a whim?

You’re assuming town plays perfectly

yes

01:16

they

01:16

should

01:16

?

01:17

Like

01:17

With that logic you would assume then not killing is the best option

01:18

Because then you "lose" for any action you take

It’s not either, because you’ll vote me out and draw with town

(This is the draw scenario)

I’m figuring it out rn but I’m busy as hell

Phantom of Christmas Past

I’m figuring it out rn but I’m busy as hell

I'm still suggesting to you that town kill is the thing that furthers you and I to the scarce alignment win scenarios Not doing it is locking yourself out of them into a draw early At least me and my afternoon-long brainstorming think so

If I don’t kill, it’s a guaranteed wolf loss and vamp and town draw

01:21

If I kill town, the decision is all up to town’s and your actions and it could end any way, with my loss being most likely

01:21

If I kill you, it’s an auto town win

Phantom of Christmas Past

If I kill town, the decision is all up to town’s and your actions and it could end any way, with my loss being most likely

It would be nice if they give me the win but realistically lynching them is the thing i would be forced to do, everything else just doesnt work

Really? You’d lynch a town with their power only on their vote numbers over a complete liability with a kill ability?

01:23

If you want to assume perfect undead’s killing me here

Phantom of Christmas Past

Really? You’d lynch a town with their power only on their vote numbers over a complete liability with a kill ability?

If they got a brain they stop this

01:23

rhhdhxhc

01:24

Like yes i would try and vote you if allowed but it is precisely knowing that it can (and will probably be) a lynch tie that would movilize me into lynching into town

Kal. Let me kill sunny. We can tie polls tomorrow and I’ll be stuck at a no kill zone, since killing town makes you win or furthers a draw and killing you makes town win. It’ll be a draw for everyone and the safest option for me as well

01:26

And I know you’re free to vote me out but that causes a town win, and if you’re fine with that I won’t argue

Phantom of Christmas Past

Kal. Let me kill sunny. We can tie polls tomorrow and I’ll be stuck at a no kill zone, since killing town makes you win or furthers a draw and killing you makes town win. It’ll be a draw for everyone and the safest option for me as well

That's the "draw early" scenario

And I think we’d all prefer that right

Phantom of Christmas Past

And I think we’d all prefer that right

Well thetiredfromthisgamemesaysyesbut safest option here is an option that locks you away from a win early And also does the same for me (why I am trying to convince you) This case i think, repeats itself down an iteration

I can’t win

You have a chance as slim as do I

The only case I do win is a team heavy kingmaking me which isn’t a win I’d like nor a “perfect play” (and quite possible bordering on a throw) or both teams playing incredibly stupidly which let’s be honest isn’t happening

01:32

My chance is way slimmer than yours, you can get a win from me killing town

Phantom of Christmas Past

Kal. Let me kill sunny. We can tie polls tomorrow and I’ll be stuck at a no kill zone, since killing town makes you win or furthers a draw and killing you makes town win. It’ll be a draw for everyone and the safest option for me as well

nooooooooo :////

1

Phantom of Christmas Past

My chance is way slimmer than yours, you can get a win from me killing town

You can get a win if you do kill town too

01:32

Leaves the possibility open

In which way? No team would let me do that

01:32

Be honest here you’ll kill me immediately

Dispeller of Sin

nooooooooo :////

Yeah you are the talk of the town...!

Phantom of Christmas Past

Be honest here you’ll kill me immediately

I cant

01:33

Town will 100% stop me

01:33

They arent dumb

01:33

So thats why i would just lynch town

And if town helps me, they might fail or render… another draw?

01:34

If you lynch town you KNOW you will lose and let’s not pretend this

mno

01:34

Wolf win

01:34

I think

01:34

Lemme think

No

Oh no it is a draw/wolf win

Town helps me renders a tie

Under literally the same situation

01:34

1

So might as well do it the safer way?

Dragon of Santa Clause

Yeah you are the talk of the town...!

Yea I knowww

Plus you get a crown to kingmake

Phantom of Christmas Past

If you lynch town you KNOW you will lose and let’s not pretend this

?????

What’s not to like

Dragon of Santa Clause

?????

If you lynch town I kill you

How do i lose if i lynch town

Killing town causes my loss

Phantom of Christmas Past

If you lynch town I kill you

ok whate tfuck

01:35

oh

01:35

Ooooh

I’m forced to kal

Yes

I’m not a thrower

I see this

01:35

Okay and then

And then sunny kingmakes (edited)

1v1v1 with a winner since mayor is up for grabs

1 v 1 v 2

Whar

Two town left since I’m forced to kill you

waht

01:36

Thats another draw

01:36

+

01:36

Consider i just lymch town in that situation

Alive Players | Total: 6

️ - phantomtomicbomb (@Phantom of Christmas Past) yeen

yeen

- kalimoor (@Dragon of Santa Clause)

- aliisniv (@Chief Wreath Designer)

- sinisfuel (@Dispeller of Sin)

- neoimperium (@Neo the Red Nosed Reindeer)

- yuki_not_cutie (@Elf Yuki) (edited)

Ye

So if all roads lead to a possible draw why not take the safe draw?

01:37

Why do you want to gamble this so badly?

Phantom of Christmas Past

Why do you want to gamble this so badly?

Because a chance for a win is better than eating a draw?

01:37

In the case

And by taking this chance you harm all of us and your “perfect” play can very well cause your loss

Of you kill town I lymch town I die at night

01:38

Then it is 1v1v1

Phantom of Christmas Past

And by taking this chance you harm all of us and your “perfect” play can very well cause your loss

well

01:38

Idrk

01:38

What is the ruling for causing these gamestates

Dragon of Santa Clause

Then it is 1v1v1

I do NOT want to be pulled into this because town and undead have better chances lynching me and drawing

01:39

Leaving me alive is my win

01:39

Obviously both sides don’t want that

But i was told that i should just rule it as playing for my alignment So Basically playing for a win

Phantom of Christmas Past

I do NOT want to be pulled into this because town and undead have better chances lynching me and drawing

Theres a mayor

01:39

Theres a winner

01:39

Its not as easy

01:39

Remember that in this hypothetical i died the night before

01:39

And im the mayor

01:40

so

01:40

town can win vs undead

So mayor will tie

undead can win vs town

Or I kingmake

Phantom of Christmas Past

So mayor will tie

not possible

01:40

3 votes

Phantom of Christmas Past

Or I kingmake

All 3 are kingmakers really

So I kingmake and I guarantee my loss

If one alignment does not want another alignment to win they can do it in that situation

Oh my god

in that case theres no upper hands

And you’re fine with this?

Phantom of Christmas Past

And you’re fine with this?

its like

01:41

33% chance for a win

01:41

:V

No upper hands, but I have kill power

01:41

It’s obvious who’s the threat here

Phantom of Christmas Past

No upper hands, but I have kill power

yeah, and just 1 alignment survives after the lynch so

Yes, but that will be either a draw or me choosing who wins

Phantom of Christmas Past

Yes, but that will be either a draw or me choosing who wins

Mayor is also a threat

Which is way better than me being kept alive

whoever has mayor has "killpower" too

Dragon of Santa Clause

Mayor is also a threat

No, because my perfect play is to kill mayor

01:42

They need me dead

Phantom of Christmas Past

No, because my perfect play is to kill mayor

Yes?

01:42

like what im getting at is

And if I kill mayor, thats my win

01:43

Both undead and town won’t want that unless they choose so, obviously they’d rather take their chances

town needs mayor undead needs mayor you need to avoid lynch

And get me out

the wincon for town/undead is to grab mayor and lynch you out your wincon is to not get lynched wow phan its actually a hearts game

Where two teams are against me!

my point is that you can consider whoever has mayor to be a reverse lynch

So I pick who wins

Phantom of Christmas Past

Where two teams are against me!

2 teams against undead too

01:44

And town

No

01:44

Because if any team teams with me it’s my win

01:44

Who wants that?

Phantom of Christmas Past

Because if any team teams with me it’s my win

If any team teams with any other it is their win

01:45

1

How?

01:45

I presume the election of mayor and lynch at the same time doesn’t add the mayor vote to the lynch (edited)

I think you are not considering that whoever has mayor just wins

01:45

And both undead/town will infight

Since they aren’t elected by the time lynch ends

Phantom of Christmas Past

I presume the election of mayor and lynch at the same time doesn’t add the mayor vote to the lynch (edited)

Nah

Nah?

01:46

You asked hosts?

It doesn't

It doesn’t

01:46

Thats the point Im making

The mayor role is given start of night

Exactly

or wtv

That proves my point kal

Phantom of Christmas Past

That proves my point kal

What are you not understand

What do YOU not understand?

If town doesnt want undead to win they vote undead for lynch

01:47

If undead doesnt want town to win they vote town for lynch

Okay, and I’ll vote undead for lynch as well. Undead dies and I kill town and I win

If wolf doesnt want to....

01:47

Etc

Town obviously thinks ahead, realizes this

01:48

Town teams with undead to get a 50/50 win or draw

01:48

Be realistic kal, if you’re in that scenario I bet your ass isn’t voting with me

Phantom of Christmas Past

Town teams with undead to get a 50/50 win or draw

A draw NEVER happens there bevause mayor exists

You’d team straight with town

Dragon of Santa Clause

A draw NEVER happens there bevause mayor exists

I choose who’s mayor

01:48

And I can choose none

Phantom of Christmas Past

Be realistic kal, if you’re in that scenario I bet your ass isn’t voting with me

no i would be yapping my mouth off to both you and whoevers the last town to let me win

01:48

01:48

both you and the town probably the same

Well that means you’re not playing perfectly kal! You’ll be going against all you want rn

01:49

Town teaming with undead is perfect play lol

I would ask for mayor Town knows this, asks for mayor too Infight One team decides to give up and make the other lose You win

01:49

Ruhpluhpluh

Phantom of Christmas Past

Town teaming with undead is perfect play lol

What

Town isn’t suiciding to help give wolves a win

no

It’s impossible for any team to team with me and win

Winning is perfect play

Tell me how they’d win

Phantom of Christmas Past

It’s impossible for any team to team with me and win

Any team that "teams with another" loses

01:50

it is FFA

How does any team teaming with me win?

town teams w/ undead town loses

No, I pick who loses

Phantom of Christmas Past

How does any team teaming with me win?

ask the same but slot town/undead in for "me"

I wouldn’t know what’s going on behind the scenes

Phantom of Christmas Past

No, I pick who loses

Yes?

01:51

This is the same premise as the town/undead

Dragon of Santa Clause

town teams w/ undead town loses

Yes, which disproves this point

The town and undead also pick who loses

Because town can win from that scenario

Phantom of Christmas Past

Because town can win from that scenario

What

01:51

Undead can too

Yes, but you said town loses

01:51

Which implies undead win

01:51

Which isn’t guaranteed

01:52

Again, no team that teams with me can win

01:52

This is a fact

Phantom of Christmas Past

Yes, but you said town loses

In that scenario

01:52

Theres

01:52

No perfect play

01:52

It is convince someone to let you win

01:52

For all involved

There is, likelier for town and undead to team and take the 50/50

01:52

It’d force me to pick

01:52

Killed or not

01:53

I wouldn’t need to be convinced

Phantom of Christmas Past

There is, likelier for town and undead to team and take the 50/50

Why to assuming

Why to assuming?

Why yo assuming*

Kal be honest you’ll be doing that exact thing. Team with me and I kill you and win, we both know this

Phantom of Christmas Past

Kal be honest you’ll be doing that exact thing. Team with me and I kill you and win, we both know this

I team with town and... They lynch me and win

01:53

01:54

whoever i pick to win kills me

Well, I can pick to give you mayor

So i would aim to be the winner

Phantom of Christmas Past

Well, I can pick to give you mayor

Yes

Didn’t you say undead can win too?

01:54

Thats your wincon

Phantom of Christmas Past

Didn’t you say undead can win too?

Yes

01:54

Convincing one

You don’t win from teaming with me

Person

Periodt

Phantom of Christmas Past

You don’t win from teaming with me

Nor town

01:54

I need mayor

01:54

If either of you decide to give mayor to eachother i lose

Kal. This is the question at hand. Would you rather take a 50/50 at winning or not win?

01:55

This is so obvious

Phantom of Christmas Past

Kal. This is the question at hand. Would you rather take a 50/50 at winning or not win?

Why is there a 50/50!!!!

01:55

It is a 33/33/33

Because I pick

01:55

And it can end either way

Phantom of Christmas Past

Because I pick

As so would I

01:55

And the other town

No lol if town and undead team i die

01:55

No matter what

Phantom of Christmas Past

No lol if town and undead team i die

If town/wolf team I die

01:56

same thing

01:56

Any pair kills the remainder

01:56

and well kills the sac

Exactly, so would you rather guaranteed die or have a chance of winning?

01:56

Come on this is so obvious

Phantom of Christmas Past

Exactly, so would you rather guaranteed die or have a chance of winning?

Its not a 50/50

01:56

I would need town to give me mayor?

Yes it is! I die

no

01:57

I need mayor or

No, you need me to give you mayor

You dying also kills me

No! It can kill the other and give you the win

Phantom of Christmas Past

No, you need me to give you mayor

Yes but then if i kill you you dont give me mayoe? Joyous

01:57

SS

I wouldn’t know who’s killing me lol

01:57

Because both votes are on the poll

Why am i overhthinking this shot when i was gonna sleep like an hour ago

I think you’re overthinking this so so hard, town teaming with undead is optimal and it’s not even a debate

I don't understand what you don't understand

I don’t understand what you don’t understand

~~url~~

(edited)

Phantom of Christmas Past

Because both votes are on the poll

This kal

01:58

How would I know who’s “killing” me?

01:58

It’s a 50/50

Phantom of Christmas Past

It’s a 50/50

Its nOt

01:59

It is FFA

What the FUCK

01:59

Kal if you’re doing this on purpose I will actually get mad this is so obvious

Phantom of Christmas Past

Kal if you’re doing this on purpose I will actually get mad this is so obvious

1

02:00

okay so

02:00

Reset

02:00

okay so

02:00

1v1v1 daytime mayor poll

What do you not understand? Both of you vote me on lynch. I can’t do anything. I don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes. I’d need to pick who’s mayor

wolf vs town vs undead

02:01

You are claiming it is a 50/50 because town/undead team up

Yes

okay

02:01

then

02:01

whoever accepted the trade loses

How? I don’t know what’s going behind the scenes

02:01

I pick, not them

i dont understand why doesnt undead/wolf town/wolf Dont work in this case

02:02

because in the undead/town pair whoever accepts also dies

You’re… proving my point that they don’t work?

02:02

They don’t

they

02:02

die

02:02

????

No matter who gets mayor as long as I’m alive I win

Dragon of Santa Clause

die

You’re saying that a guaranteed death is equal to a potential chance at winning?

Phantom of Christmas Past

No matter who gets mayor as long as I’m alive I win

Whoever gets mayor wins too they would just have to advocate for your loss

That’s what I’m so confused about

Dragon of Santa Clause

Whoever gets mayor wins too they would just have to advocate for your loss

No, I kill them durng night

02:03

lol

02:03

So no team wants me alive

Phantom of Christmas Past

So no team wants me alive

No team also wants to be left mayorless

That… doesn’t matter when teaming with me guarantees the loss?

02:04

“Oh boy teaming with wolves got me mayor!” Yeah and I’ll also kill you and win, sounds great doesn’t it

Phantom of Christmas Past

That… doesn’t matter when teaming with me guarantees the loss?

ok so lets say i go and give up

Your mayor does nothing if you team with me

i can choose to team with you and lynch town

I kill you and win

02:04

End

i can choose to team with town and give them mayor

02:04

Yes

02:04

the point is

02:05

i lose the moment i dont get mayor

02:05

as undead

Let’s say you get mayor when teaming with me. You still lose

ye

It’s a guaranteed loss teaming with me

02:05

Against a potential win teaming with undead

02:05

Quite obvious which route is better no?

Yes because you kill But also it is a guaranteed loss for whoever doesnt get mayor in undead/town pair

And…? There’s a chance for win

one of them can bite the bullet and let you win

There’s no chance for win teaming with me

Phantom of Christmas Past

And…? There’s a chance for win

Ooooooooh

02:06

Ooooooooooooooooh

You get it now? :/

im too eepy for that answer uhmmm

Kal you’re saying people play to win right? Then teaming with me completely destroys that

02:07

However, teaming with undead and voting me out gives a chance for victory

02:07

Even if you still might… die

02:07

But you’ll die anyways no matter what teaming with me

Yeah with perfect play you are just moot in the conversation because you don't bring winning chances

02:08

but.

Exactly

02:08

So nobody wants to team with me

The thing is

Rather they want to convince me that they get the win

One of them with perfect play is also guaranteed to lose

SO???? They can also win

02:08

Kal you’re acting as if dying is oh so bad. My man you can possibly not die by teaming with town

02:09

Whereas it’s a guaranteed death with me

Say you deny them of mayor

02:09

What if

02:09

They team with you then

02:09

And accept to

02:09

Die

Okay? But there was a chance for their win

"Chance of their win" assume convo just ended in 'aint giving your ass mayor'

02:10

oh

Dragon of Santa Clause

And accept to

You think they’d just accept death? No they’d ask me to give them the win, since thats their only chance of winning lol

well the continuation is

02:11

'hey mr wolf can i have mayo'

If you think a team would just accept death and rather give me the win once I make the decision then they are dumb because my decision can change

Then you go

02:11

'yeah'

02:11

And gove one of them mayor

Yeah, and both teams have a chance of winning

02:12

Only from killing me

Well okay it can change. But realistically a lynch vote can also change when someone realizes they lose

02:12

Since at that point they just become kingmaker

Their chance of winning is nulled the moment they team with me

They cant win

But they might win if they convince me and kill me

Phantom of Christmas Past

Their chance of winning is nulled the moment they team with me

Yes but what if they consider their chance of winning to be null already

Then they’re dumb

02:13

Because my decision can change

Yeah but like

Phantom of Christmas Past

Because my decision can change

Consider a timeframe for this specifically

02:14

A vote for lynch can also swap

And? If it swaps to not me I win

02:14

No team would accept guaranteed defeat

Yes

Phantom of Christmas Past

No team would accept guaranteed defeat

I mean like

Phantom of Christmas Past

No team would accept guaranteed defeat

This

30s before PC type shit

THIS, kal.

Dragon of Santa Clause

30s before PC type shit

Do you know how minuscule that makes my chance of winning to be?

02:15

You think I’d willingly make myself go there?

Well it also gives me a minuscule chance to win

02:16

I'm showing you this

You can’t convince me this kal, sorry

02:16

I’d rather take a draw than a minuscule chance of winning

Dragon of Santa Clause

Well it also gives me a minuscule chance to win

Higher than my chances though

02:16

Way higher

❌

02:17

I still consider them to be equal

02:17

Since everyone in that situation is kingmaker

02:17

Even if you say the mayor thing, it reduces down to the loser kingmaking

02:18

and im pretty sure that after a heated argument something can chanega

No kal it’s not equal

02:18

Town and undead will always team at the start

02:18

And even if a team might give up

02:18

My chance will always be tiny tiny

02:18

Way lower than yours

I get rhat but it doesnt change the fact that everyone is still kingmaker and therefore equal in winning chances Everyone chooses who wins

02:20

you'd be forgoing this situation for early draw

02:20

Well, mull over it

02:20

Priming the "lynch X town" for tmr morning

It is not equal lol

02:21

Things can change but it still ends up likelier for me to lose

02:21

It’s equal if I have no killing ability

Im eeeepy i discussed this sm

02:22

Aagin this is just forgoing win chance for an early draw Something, i would personally take, even in your situation, since i know everyone else can be kingmaker

02:23

æ

02:23

33% win chance

02:23

Instead of 100% draw

02:23

Win more worth

02:23

I sleep

02:23

Nigth

Thats for YOU

02:23

for me my chance is god tiny

Dragon of Santa Clause

Aagin this is just forgoing win chance for an early draw Something, i would personally take, even in your situation, since i know everyone else can be kingmaker

even in your situation

No kal

@e

Again it’s only equal if I have no kill ability

still equal nonetheless

02:24

eevryone can win

02:24

Idk

02:24

@Dispeller of Sin i throw you at phantom i sleep gn

No kal

02:24

Oh my god

02:28

Kal I’m killing sunny. Again I really don’t know what’s your point, because town and undead are 100% teaming at the start, and even if this can change the fact that they teamed makes my chance of winning lower (edited)

02:28

If you want to be petty and give town the win be my guest

02:28

Because that will go against your “perfect” play of wanting a win

Smfh

Have you even considered me kal? You just want the… win, and haven’t realized that route nearly nulls any chance of me winning? I’m the one killing here, and if you want to play perfect so will I.

your win also nulls mine moot

02:37

Goodnoit

I don’t win by killing sunny lmao

02:37

We draw

yes i mean in the path where you do win

02:38

i also lose

02:38

but ures im eeping

02:38

no more

The minuscule path? I’m not taking that

Dragon of Santa Clause

@Dispeller of Sin i throw you at phantom i sleep gn

yea rip dude's been whining since the start idk what you want me to do to change his mind

Whining…

03:07

Have you been so deep in your own win that you forgot I exist?

03:10

Like, my fault for wanting to play preferably for my team? I’m sorry???

??? idk what you're on about whatever makes you feel better

What are YOU on about?

im not going to argue with you i think it's very obvious unless you haven't been self-aware at all this entire game

Obvious how? I think I’ve explained myself just fine and you’re calling me self unaware without any further talk?

03:14

I think it’s very obvious on my side too

03:14

In fact, if you really want me to be self aware this is the most self aware play!

Woop

To be fair

11:12

You can't blame me for trying to win by all means possible

11:13

On a genuine note i still dont know why 33/33/33 apparently fucks the wolf here aeaeaeaeae

~~url~~

(edited)

They will NOT allow me to be skin colored

Dragon of Santa Clause

You can't blame me for trying to win by all means possible

I know, but don’t blame me for making my own decision

Phantom of Christmas Past

I know, but don’t blame me for making my own decision

Fair

1

14:16

Well this is the end

14:16

Game end after hosts notice nothing new will happen before new year

Mhm

How did the game treat you on your end phan

Like in general or now?

Phantom of Christmas Past

Like in general or now?

In general blublub

Quite shit

14:22

Busy + no info in partial is um really crushing

Phantom of Christmas Past

Busy + no info in partial is um really crushing

Fair

14:25

Some games hard like that

14:25

The rl discussion was mostly correct,,,

@Phantom of Christmas Past btw, reminder to vot

I know dw I just want to wait for neo to vote first

Phantom of Christmas Past

I know dw I just want to wait for neo to vote first

Neo will probably stall until PC -# 😭

In that case I will vote early

Aight

14:37

Dont forger!!!!

14:38

I will now snooze this game for a loooong time

14:38

But not that early

1

14:38

Aren’t we all

~~url~~

(edited)

No hamsters were harmed in this gif

Phantom of Christmas Past

Aren’t we all

Can i have guardian vote at lest

16:54

16:54

I wanna be skin colored

Kal do you trust me or not

17:18

No way I’m failing this

1

Phantom of Christmas Past

Kal do you trust me or not

Guardian vote specifically is irrelevant

17:33

(I actually want to be skin colored)

@Phantom of Christmas Past could you vote me for guardian (2 hours before PC version)

Neo voted dw

20:57

You’re fine

Ayy

Hmmm

23:31

Asking sniv if getting out of this ditch is possible

23:32

Town says no, game ends in a draw

23:32

@Phantom of Christmas Past

what?

23:38

wasn't that the point

Phantom of Christmas Past

wasn't that the point

I meant if*

If?

Dragon of Santa Clause

Town says no, game ends in a draw

.

23:44

Also they are assuming you kill someone tonight

So you’re trying to say that town understands?

23:44

I’m not killing anyone lol

I don't know what they don't understand of "instantly lose"

23:44

but ok

Phantom of Christmas Past

So you’re trying to say that town understands?

Idrk

23:44

Snivy is yappin

Wow not to me

23:45

Idk what town are up to and it lowk scares me

Idk why town wants me to attack though

23:46

I’ll talk with them

Phantom of Christmas Past

Idk why town wants me to attack though

Well both scenarios make them win one way or the other

Yeah

23:46

Let’s just keep this up

23:47

I’ll always vote with you so if town breaks the tie they lose or you betray me and lose

23:47

But in the end it’ll draw I hope

I'm the loyal yeen Kalimoor

23:48

yeen

Phantom of Christmas Past

But in the end it’ll draw I hope

We drawing ts next year

️

Dragon of Santa Clause

I'm the loyal yeen Kalimoor

mhm….

Dragon of Santa Clause

We drawing ts next year

️

You’re so funny

Phantom of Christmas Past

You’re so funny

At this rate we just might

Hosts probably know

They are off to discussing when their preliminary assumptions were you are killing someone like dawg

Phantom of Christmas Past

mhm….

Hey it is true

I trust you

23:50

Kinda

Well if not you would be trusting

23:50

Town

23:50

So

23:50

Like

23:51

~~also nearly all of the alignment win scenarios say 'town'~~

It’s ok we will draw

23:51

After a years long war the town members agree to hug it out (edited)

Phantom of Christmas Past

It’s ok we will draw

We will draw tomorrow (Montag, 28. Dezember 2026)

Idk what's up with sniv

00:27

He thinks we are not losing

00:27

uhm.

I'm talking with him dw

00:28

hey kal you should be the last person that worries about this

00:28

if town does anything they lose and you win

1

Phantom of Christmas Past

hey kal you should be the last person that worries about this

Okaea

Town is deviating

15:06

# Something is happening

Are you behind any of this

Phantom of Christmas Past

Are you behind any of this

I told and proposed them the idea since i asked hosts if it was throwing in that case

15:15

It's a non-drawish conclusion(?) Still think it draws

15:15

So no

15:15

If you want a direct answer

What do you mean by that

15:15

It’s throwing no

15:16

You’re reducing town’s numbers purposely with little backup reason other than ending the game (with a loss)

15:16

You’re not gaining anything by removing a vote power of your own team

Phantom of Christmas Past

It’s throwing no

Yeah that's what i assumed

15:16

But apparently it isn't

It isn’t? Why?

Phantom of Christmas Past

It isn’t? Why?

It doesn't make them lose instantly per se

15:17

Unlike both our cases

15:17

Theirs is not instantaneous

Okay, but even if it’s not throwing it’s incredibly stupid

15:17

Almost gross negligence

Phantom of Christmas Past

Almost gross negligence

Almost unless they understand that they can get a better outcome than a draw

15:19

Hosts told me 'you dont aim for a draw'

Okay, but you aim for it when there’s nothing better

Ye

You don’t aim for a loss because you’re not allowed to aim for a draw

Well the definition of a draw is a gamestate where perpetuating it is the best move to make for everyone involved

Also the only way I see town winning is if you die? And that could happen anytime, they don’t need to lynch a town member for that to happen

Town can choose so they aren't technically in a draw But they draw down the line (anyways) Both you and I are though

Phantom of Christmas Past

You don’t aim for a loss because you’re not allowed to aim for a draw

They don't instantly lose

15:20

By taking that decision

15:20

That's why

15:20

It is possible

15:20

For them

Even if it’s not instant the future consequences are obvious

15:21

Like it doesn’t mean they’re throwing

15:21

But it’s an incredibly dumb decision when they can settle with a better result

15:21

Again town gains nothing lynching their own member other than ending the game with a loss or a draw

I think you should yap town's ears off about this

And if they continue our plan they end with a… guaranteed draw

15:22

Like sure they don’t instantly lose but that’s a dumb path to go

I think im forced to resign mayor if the lynch happens anyway(?)

15:22

I didnt consider this path yet

Oh why?

15:22

What are you talking about

2v1v1 draw?

15:22

Thi

15:23

So basically current situation -2 votes

15:23

joyous

15:24

That is the "ultimate" state of the game per se really

Huh

15:25

If town kills themselves I’m killing town and you win

15:25

There’s no other route

Wait wahr

A 2 v 1 v 2 isn’t good for me because keeping me alive is a loss basically

That is true

15:27

Hummm

15:27

So it is stupid for town to kill a town?

Yeah…

15:28

They draw or lose, or can choose to guaranteed draw

15:28

Like…

15:28

They get nothing

15:28

And I’m for sure not drawing town if they kill themselves

15:28

I’ve made it clear any switched moves results in their loss

Yoi should tell them this again

I am

Ftr neo did not participate at all in convo

But I’m busy today I gotta pack

He quite literally did this randomly

You need to help me here

Yuki spoke with me a little bit and sniv was doing most of the talking

Dragon of Santa Clause

He quite literally did this randomly

Well tbf snivy suggested the same

I mostly proposed the idea "it can get to a non-draw gamestate, but still probably a draw" and told them a host confirmed they can go for this action since it overrules temporarily hurting their alignment if it helps them reach a gamestate

I think Neo made a mistake

15:31

Thank goodness I know town isn’t that stupid

Phantom of Christmas Past

I think Neo made a mistake

My announcement when the

Ok there we go

15:32

I’ll do the tying again when everyone votes as usual

Aight

15:32

Time to hit the snooze

15:32

Preposterouses

Hit em up with a reminder of what both cases cause so they remember

@Phantom of Christmas Past yuki and snivy are so snipe the vote core

20:25

️

Their loss

20:25

I’ll vote with you early

20:26

I trust you won’t randomly vote with town to give them the win

Phantom of Christmas Past

I trust you won’t randomly vote with town to give them the win

I would be voting myself i aint gonna be doing that dawg

thonk

20:27

Who knows

Phantom of Christmas Past

Who knows

POV trust issues

Idk what’s town planning here

neo has a bad timezone

20:27

Like

Dragon of Santa Clause

POV trust issues

Yeah ofc I have trust issues with you

I think its 10:30 pm for him rn

I mean Neo already voted so it doesn’t matter

So it makes sense if hes voting early they would be planning to snipe

Like shouldn’t yuki and snivy be voting way earlier by now

yes

20:28

They also ignored my ping in townyeen diplomacy

Dragon of Santa Clause

So it makes sense if hes voting early they would be planning to snipe

Snipe… and tie?

Phantom of Christmas Past

Snipe… and tie?

Well i guess they are banking on you not voting or someshit

Or they snipe and kill themselves which is again basically gross negligence

20:29

I already voted lol

this makes me nervous

No more games anymore idc if town fails themselves and you win

Phantom of Christmas Past

I already voted lol

Yez ty

It’s such a simple ask

This game will end nezt year

20:29

Town when

Town when ❗

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