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Werewolves Revamped
Os8d | CC 1 / hi-again
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Werewolves Bot B BOT 28-Oct-22 11:38 PM
@Captain Spooky has created a new CC! CC Members | Total: 2 @Captain Spooky @TombStone
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Captain Spooky 28-Oct-22 11:38 PM
hi
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hi
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Captain Spooky 28-Oct-22 11:39 PM
oh wow ur fast
23:39
how does it make sense that zombies can turn undead lol
23:40
by vampire
23:43
cuz arent they already undaed
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zombie is more of an infection in this since its based on bites
23:44
so I suppose zombies are infected people
23:44
so infected undead can exist
23:44
in fact I believe zombified Undead remain members of the underworld
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Captain Spooky 28-Oct-22 11:47 PM
yea because zombies cant bite people in their channel
23:47
but you also cant demonize people in underworld channel
23:47
so it cant go back and forth
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it can
23:49
if a undead is bitten they remain demonized
23:50
and I just checked and nothing is stopping zombies from biting other zombies (that may or may not still be zombies)
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Captain Spooky 28-Oct-22 11:50 PM
do you not lose demonize status when u get turned
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no
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Captain Spooky 28-Oct-22 11:51 PM
Zombies cannot bite other members of the graveyard channel.
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oh I didnt see
23:51
I just read it guess im blind
23:51
huh yea I am
23:51
hm that's a bit unfair maybe
23:52
on the other hand zombie's turning is direct and vampire's is not so I guess its fair
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Captain Spooky 28-Oct-22 11:52 PM
yeah
23:52
the conditions are looser
23:52
also zombies changing roles is unfair
23:52
because it stops the chain reaction of deaths
23:54
can a bat demonize a vampire
23:55
why does it have both hooker powers and take 2 attacks to kill
23:57
honestly bats desc needs some rephrasing lol, very wordy
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just read the description of bat (hopefully am not blind this time) and yeah it can demonize vampire
00:31
so the strategy would be to haunt whoever the vampire will demonize in N1, thereby demonizing the vampire too
00:32
and yeah, honestly (almost) all descriptions that are so long they need to be split into two separate Details sections probably could be better
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Captain Spooky 29-Oct-22 12:41 AM
bat probably needs some balancing imo
00:42
since it can demonize vampire and whatever
00:45
this game is a bit crazy lol
00:48
whys it called corpse, i feel like theres cooler potential names like mummy or revenant (edited)
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Make suggestions then
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Captain Spooky 29-Oct-22 12:50 AM
i feel like i shouldnt make suggestions regarding the current game while the current game is ongoing
00:50
cuz yknow, meta stuff
00:54
oh theres also ghoul
associated with graveyards and the consumption of human flesh. Modern fiction often uses the term to label a certain kind of undead monster.
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Captain Spooky 30-Oct-22 04:33 PM
Here's what I came up with
16:33
Suggestions to add for zombie after the game (writing down so I don't forget) - biting it immediate, but converting is end night. Just to be fair for invest role. if they die at the same time they are converted, they will die as their role before conversion - one person can't be bit twice in the same night, just so exorcist can do something about it - while protected from stuff like guardian or witch or chef or wager you can't be converted. So that way you can stop youself from being converted by outsmarting them (more strategy involved) (edited)
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all solo power actions are immediate, the second sounds good, the third is inconsistent with all other role changes
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Captain Spooky 30-Oct-22 04:35 PM
Is it a rule that they have to be immediate
16:35
Or just a general trend
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a general trend
16:36
but having consistency with similiar powers is good to have things be more intuitive
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Captain Spooky 30-Oct-22 04:36 PM
That's a good point
16:37
But I just feel like that makes the role more fair
16:37
Well, if that's Ur thoughts on it then 🤷‍♂️
16:37
I mean wisp and wager aren't immediate
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turning soulless is immediate as is wisp powdering
16:39
I guess biting could be immediate but turning not and it would work similarily
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Captain Spooky 30-Oct-22 04:39 PM
That sounds better
16:40
Cuz for vampire, the role change is also on phase change
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Captain Spooky 30-Oct-22 08:25 PM
do you think maybe wolf cub could me moved to wk category
20:25
if alpha wolf counts as wk
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Captain Spooky 30-Oct-22 08:34 PM
oh what if, when someone gets bitten it removes demonization if theyre demonized, and vice versa
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Captain Spooky
do you think maybe wolf cub could me moved to wk category
No - AW is WK because it can kill - it can overwrite the pack kill
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Captain Spooky
oh what if, when someone gets bitten it removes demonization if theyre demonized, and vice versa
It's cool that you're trying to think through all the issues and edge cases, but I'm honestly not sure if I'd vote to keep Zombie at all
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TombStone
No - AW is WK because it can kill - it can overwrite the pack kill
Captain Spooky 30-Oct-22 08:58 PM
oh i thought it was from the double vote
20:59
and i thought cub was similar enough to that ability
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TombStone
It's cool that you're trying to think through all the issues and edge cases, but I'm honestly not sure if I'd vote to keep Zombie at all
Captain Spooky 30-Oct-22 08:59 PM
fair enough
20:59
i also dont like it, but i didnt want to be like "just delete it" cuz thats more negative
21:01
if that makes sense
21:01
how did it get created anyways. i feel like it came from nothing
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it was added for the game with all the solo teams
21:11
iirc a short time before that game I had stumbled across a very basic role description of it on the old ww server
21:11
and I was like "we should readd that role for the all solo teams game"
21:11
so we did
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Captain Spooky 30-Oct-22 09:14 PM
also makes me want to suggest a devout wolf role after the game
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that is technically hellhound
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Captain Spooky 30-Oct-22 09:15 PM
hellhound can switch role
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the thing with the wolves is they have a much easier time spotting traitors
21:15
whereas town cant
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Werewolves Bot B BOT 30-Oct-22 09:15 PM
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Hellhound [Werewolf Miscellaneous]
Basics
There is always more than one Hellhound. All the Hellhounds have a secret channel where they can communicate with the other Hellhounds securely.
Details
Hellhounds are the werewolf version of bakers. These werewolves know from each other that they are Hellhounds, and they can use and share this information in their battle against the white werewolf. Sometimes it is, and sometimes it is not, in the interest of the werewolf team to immediately inform the rest of the werewolves that they are Hellhounds. If a Hellhound betrays the group in any way (by changing alignment or role) the Hellhounds are immediately disbanded.
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Captain Spooky 30-Oct-22 09:15 PM
If a Hellhound betrays the group in any way (by changing alignment or role) the Hellhounds are immediately disbanded.
21:16
thats true but i feel like it should at least exist (edited)
21:16
how does devout interact with thief
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it doesn't
21:16
actually maybe it does
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Werewolves Bot B BOT 30-Oct-22 09:16 PM
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Thief [Unaligned Align]
Limited Role
Basics
Each night, the Thief chooses one player to switch roles with.
Details (1/2)
When they switch with a player, they become that player's role, and the other player becomes the Thief. Role specific disguises are also switched. Selecting a player to switch with is an immediate effect, but switching roles is an end night action and happens after any other end night actions such as night kills. The Thief can switch with a dead player, if the player was alive when they selected them. When switching with another player, all their channels are switched. Effects such as being powdered are not swapped. Effects are kept after switching, even if a player's new role cannot have that effect. In those cases the effect becomes dormant and does nothing; it will become active again if the player once again switches role. If the Thief does not select a target, a random player is chosen. Each Thief may only select players that have never been that thief before.
Details (2/2)
The Thief wins if they are still alive at the end of the game or alternatively if there's no or only Unaligned players left to select, the Thief immediately ascends and wins. This can happen immediately after selecting a player. The Thief's ability is more powerful than any other mechanic (even more powerful than those that claim they are the most powerful). If a Thief switches with a member of Hell, the current member of Hell betrays their team and becomes a Thief. Effectively the Thief changes the player behind the role, so if a demon switches with a thief, the demon doesn't truly betray the hell team - just the player behind the demon has changed. If the Thief switches with a member of a cupid couple, that member betrays the couple to become a thief and the former thief joins the couple instead. The Thief is not affected by redirections.
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The Thief's ability is more powerful than any other mechanic (even more powerful than those that claim they are the most powerful). If a Thief switches with a member of Hell, the current member of Hell betrays their team and becomes a Thief. Effectively the Thief changes the player behind the role, so if a demon switches with a thief, the demon doesn't truly betray the hell team - just the player behind the demon has changed.
21:17
that paragraph resolves it
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Captain Spooky 30-Oct-22 09:17 PM
okay fair
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you can consider the thief switching the player not the role
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Captain Spooky 30-Oct-22 09:17 PM
so its not immune to thief
21:17
i guess then youd have an edge case of cupid and devout wolf
21:18
because at least with town adn cupid, the alignment doesnt change
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There's not really anything with a Devout Wolf from an objective point of view I think
21:18
But I dislike having semi duplicate roles
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Captain Spooky 30-Oct-22 09:19 PM
but the main thing is. yes wolfpack have an easy time spotting traitors, but a traitor is much more harmful to them than town
21:19
because it reveals them all
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good point
21:19
also I think from a lore perspective a devout wolf doesn't work (since holy things harm the wolves), though it'd be easy enough to rebrand it
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Captain Spooky 30-Oct-22 09:20 PM
i mean, the name could change
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yeah like I said easy enough to rebrand it
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Captain Spooky 30-Oct-22 09:20 PM
just a same ability
21:20
what would the cupid edge case be
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I dont have any arguments against it, but I just dont like it
21:20
DV just cant change team, it can betray town
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Captain Spooky 30-Oct-22 09:21 PM
or maybe you could just make alpha wolf be devout, instead of new role
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TombStone
DV just cant change team, it can betray town
This notably can happen when a cupid falls in love with a DV and is then infected by an IW turning the cupid into a cupid wolf, making the DV and CW a solo team
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Captain Spooky 30-Oct-22 09:22 PM
or if cupid becomes undead or whatever
21:22
if alpha wolf became devout itd make sense. like a role that you can always trust to be wolf no matter what
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I can kinda see that make sense
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Captain Spooky 30-Oct-22 09:25 PM
since it is the role meant for dealing with traitors
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The Alpha Wolf can be considered as a leader of the pack and is absolutely loyal. Any attempt to turn the Alpha Wolf against the pack will fail. As the leader the Alpha Wolf's vote counts twice on the wolfpack poll. Once per game, the Alpha Wolf may secretly override the wolfpack's poll.
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Captain Spooky 30-Oct-22 09:26 PM
the only exception being cupid ig
21:26
which still holds true for DV anyways
21:27
;lupine cupid
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Werewolves Bot B BOT 30-Oct-22 09:27 PM
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Lupine Cupid [Unaligned Align - Townsfolk Base Alignment]
Basics
The Lupine Cupid is a cupid whose lover is a member of the werewolf team or wolfpack.
Details
If the cupid selects a lover from the wolf team or wolfpack, or if their lover joins the wolf team or wolfpack, the cupid turns into a Lupine Cupid. The Lupine Cupid works like the cupid, with a one exception: The Lupine Cupid cannot be killed by the werewolves. If any werewolf or member of the wolfpack attacks the Lupine Cupid the attack fails. Additionally, they are a lycan, but do not join the pack. The Lupine Cupid's win condition is not changed.
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oh in my description that would've failed too
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Captain Spooky 30-Oct-22 09:28 PM
you could change it to it cannot change roles into a different alignment
21:29
which then has the implication that it can change roles into a differnt wolf role but thats not possible with current roles anyways
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Werewolves Bot B BOT 30-Oct-22 09:29 PM
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Devout Villager [Townsfolk Miscellaneous]
Limited Role
Basics
The Devout Villager is a normal citizen, with one exception: they can never change role.
Details
When a role changing ability affects the Devout Villager, it fails. If the infecting wolf tries to infect the devout villager the infection fails and nothing happens. If a vampire tries to demonize the Devout Villager it happens normally, however if the Devout Villager is attacked they will die instead of turning undead.
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Captain Spooky 31-Oct-22 05:55 PM
So I guess first we would need to find out if we are deleting zombie, before I am to suggest my balance changes
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yeah, might be a good idea to ask after the game what people think about it
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